Hutchinson got his start in politics as a federal prosecutor during the Reagan Revolution, when his home state of Arkansas was still run by Democrats. He served two terms as governor and shortly after resigning this year, he announced that he would run for president.

If there’s one thing that makes him stand out so far, it’s that he’s willing to say things about Trump that other Republicans don’t. Hutchinson recently wrote that the former president «has led us astray,» «undermined the fabric of our democracy,» and is emblematic of bad leaders who are «focused only on themselves or settling scores with political opponents.»

In this episode of Playbook Deep Dive, host Ryan Lizza talks with the former Arkansas governor after his first official trip to Iowa. He talks candidly about why he’s running, how he thinks he can beat Trump, and why his record, which is ranks among the most conservative in the United States, is full of surprises.